Vipassana Meditation and the Laws of Nature (2)

        An Interview with S.N. Goenka by Alan AtKisson (Part 2)

Question: Many people come to something like Vipassana because they feel they are suffering in some way. But what about the person who doesn’t feel he or she is suffering, who feels quite happy and satisfied? What motivation would they have to do this work?

Goenkaji: Generally speaking, we can say that Vipassana helps everyone. One may be at any level in life, but one can-not say “there is no room for any improvement in me.” One may be a very peaceful person, one may be a very intelligent person, very wise, very successful. There may be no obvious miseries in one’s life. And yet, if one starts Vipassana, one starts improving—one becomes a much better person than before. Experience has shown this.But frequently, when somebody says “there’s no misery in me,” this is only a delusion. This person does not know how much agitation there is inside. One remains deluded, in this sensual pleasure, that sensual pleasure; this satisfaction, that satisfaction this is only at the surface level. Deep, deep inside, there is so much dissatisfaction. So much discontent. So one must first realize that “I am a sick person,” and then must realize, “this is the cause of my sickness.” And then one must try to remove that cause, to come out of the sick-ness. So one must have at least this motivation—to become a better person than what I am Very successful business people have become better business people, very successful writers have become better writers, artists have become better artists—in every sphere, in whatever profession one is involved, we find this general improvement in the mundane field occurs after one has practiced Vipassana. Leave the supra-mundane aside for the moment—it doesn’t matter. But in the mundane,worldly field, as you progress in Vipassana, you will get bet-ter results.

Question:Let’s turn back to the supra-mundane. What does the science of Vipassana teach about the supernatural or the paranormal?

Goenkaji: There are many experiences one might have which will be what are called “supernatural,” but we don’t give importance to them. They are also natural; they are not unnatural. Nothing is extraordinary. But if one aims for some kind of supernatural experience, then the whole purpose of Vipassana is lost. The purpose of Vipassana is to purify the mind, to live a good life. You may experience some supernatural powers, and yet if your mind remains full of anger, hatred, ill will, animosity, then what’s the use of this supernatural power? It will increase your ego all the more: “Look, I am now such a big yogi because I can do this thing the others cannot do.” This is madness; it doesn’t help. So we don’t give importance to these experiences.Such experiences do come. On the path, the mind gets purer and purer, and a pure mind becomes very powerful. But it is powerful in a positive way. An impure mind, by certain mental exercises, can also become powerful—but that is an impure mind. It will harm itself, it will harm oth-ers. So purity of the mind is the aim of Vipassana; power is secondary, a by-product.

Question:I heard a famous person speak recently, someone who was obviously very insightful, very wise, very intelligent, very brilliant but also, to my perception, very egoistic, in a way that seemed potentially dangerous to that person and to others. How do you recommend responding to a person like that?

Goenkaji: You see, if you simply say to that person, “Look, you are a very wise person, but to me it seems that you are also an egoistic person,” that won’t help. This person will become more egoistic: “What do you know? You are a mad fellow. You don’t know that I am free from ego.” That’s what this person will say.The best thing is to try to purify oneself first. With a pure mind, whatever you say will be very effective. When the words come from a pious-minded person, even this full-of-ego person will start thinking, “Yes, perhaps this is correct. Now let me examine this. There must be something wrong in me.”But when you say, with any kind of anger or hatred, “Oh, this fellow talks as if he is a very wise person, but he’s really a mad fellow”—when even the volition carries some hatred—the words will carry no meaning. No purpose will be served, because the vibration of anger or hatred will go with them. When you have hatred, that vibration of hatred will go and touch this person and he will become agitated; he won’t like it. But if a vibration of love goes with the same words, you will find a big change happening.Everyone who wants to help others to come out of mis-ery, or come out of their defects, must first come out of that particular defect oneself. A lame person cannot support another lame person. A blind person cannot show the path to another blind person. Vipassana helps you first become a healthy person yourself, and then automatically you will start helping others to become healthy.

Question: Is Vipassana the only way to that purity?

Goenkaji: Well, what do you mean by the “only way”? We have no attachment to the word “Vipassana.” What we say is, the only way to become a healthy person is to change the habit pattern of one’s mind at the root level. And the root level of the mind is such that it remains constantly in contact with body sensations, day and night. What we call the “unconscious mind” is day and night feeling sensations in the body and reacting to these sensations. If it feels pleasant sensation, it will start craving, clinging. If it feels unpleasant sensation, it will start hating, it will have aversion. That has become our mental habit pattern.People say that we can change our mind by this technique or that technique. And, to a certain extent, these techniques do work. But if these techniques ignore the sensations on the body, that means they are not going to the depth of the mind.So you don’t have to call it Vipassana—we have no at-tachment to this name. But people who work with the bodily sensations, training the mind not to react to the sensations, are working at the root level. This is the science, the law of nature I have been speaking about.Mind and matter are completely interrelated at the depth level, and they keep reacting to each other. When anger is generated, something starts happening at the physical level. A biochemical reaction starts. When you generate anger, there is a secretion of a particular type of biochemistry, which starts flowing with the stream of blood. And because of that particular biochemistry which has started flowing, there is a very unpleasant sensation. That chemistry started because of anger. So naturally it is very unpleasant. And when this very unpleasant sensation is there, our deep unconscious mind starts reacting with more anger. The more anger, the more this particular flow of biochemical. More biochemical flow, more anger. A vicious circle has started. Vipassana helps us to interrupt that vicious cycle. A biochemical reaction starts; Vipassana teaches us to observe it. Without reacting, we just observe. This is pure science. If people don’t want to call it Vipassana, they can call it by any other name, we don’t mind. But we must work at the depth of the mind.

Question:I read that you’ve said that Buddhism has lost what the Buddha taught, which is the Dhamma, the Vipassana technique. What is your opinion of the Christian tradition? Was Jesus teaching something similar?

Goenkaji: Every saintly person becomes a saintly person because he or she has done something to purify the mind. There is no magic, no miracle. Such things were imposed later on. A person is a good person because one has purified the mind. And to purify the mind one must go to the depth of the mind and take out the impurities. This is what Jesus kept teaching to people.Now, in every tradition, whether Christian or Jewish or Hindu or Jain or Muslim, what we call the founders of these religions were saintly people. They were not interested in fighting others in the name of religion—that started only much later. They taught a way to purify the mind, and that was lost everywhere. Nobody is practicing this. One may call oneself a Buddhist, but one is not practicing the technique taught by Buddha. It is the same with Hindus, the same with Christians, the same everywhere.Why do I say this?Because people come to the Vipassana technique from all communities, from all religions. A large number of Christian nuns and priests have come, hundreds of them, and they keep coming. And when they pass through this, they say, “Now we understand what Jesus Christ taught.” They learn Vipassana, and they say “Now, through this practice, we understand. We did not properly understand the words of Christ.” You see, Jesus was a practitioner. He was talking about his experience. And unless we have that experience, we can’t understand him. The same thing is said by Muslims when they pass through Vipassana, the same thing by Hindus, the same thing by Buddhists. Truth is truth. If one remains at the intellectual level, as I said at the beginning, or devotional level, then the truth differs from person to person. But at the level of experience, the truth is always the same—it makes no difference who practices it.

Question: We are, of course, working at the intellectual level here, which is inevitable for the moment. But could you explain more about the body being vibrational? And is one always responsible for the agitation in one’s own body, or is one susceptible to the vibrations coming from someone else?

Goenkaji: Whatever vibration comes from outside, it will certainly try to affect you. But if you are your own master inside, then your vibration will be so strong that you will start helping and purifying the vibration outside. If I am a weak person, anything will try to overpower me. If agitation is coming, and I am a weak person, I’ll succumb to that. If I am a strong person, I don’t mind any kind of thing coming my way—I generate my vibration, which is a vibration of love, compassion, goodwill, stability, equanimity, and I’m not harmed. So that’s why we say in Vipassana that one hundred percent of the cause of our misery is within our-selves, not outside. One hundred percent of the cause of our happiness is within ourselves, not outside. We are our own masters. Develop that mastery of yourself and you will become a happy person